Watch out for these Traders Page
I don't hold grudges and will work things out with dissatisfied trades usually. But when a trade goes bad and the other party has no intention of making it right, YOU MAKE MY LIST. I really hate doing this but it is the only satisfaction I get for BAD traders since moderators hands are tied or lies by the other party.
...and just for fun reading, I've added the transaction info for the most interesting deals-gone-bad!
I don't hold grudges and will work things out with dissatisfied trades usually. But when a trade goes bad and the other party has no intention of making it right, YOU MAKE MY LIST. I really hate doing this but it is the only satisfaction I get for BAD traders since moderators hands are tied or lies by the other party.
...and just for fun reading, I've added the transaction info for the most interesting deals-gone-bad!
Some of the latest: 2019-
RANDY LEESE-via Samstradingpost.com- had a nice little vintage trade going on here that went terribly wrong when pricing/grading. Admittedly, my vintage are not usually nrmt cards, so I will usually send a scan of the cards so the other trader can see what he was getting. I usually send no more than 3 or 4 cards in a scan so that the other trader can zoom-in and see the cards up-close so there are no discrepancies. I did that for about 90% of the cards (I didn't really have to for some really nice 1961's that were mintish) which was around 60 cards in all. When I do that, I usually exact the same from the other trader. From this guy, I get one scan of the most valuable 9 cards in the lot. I didn't zoom-in on the cards as he explained the were nrmt or better and I took his word for it (dumb me!). When it came time to finish the trade, the scans of the cards I had for him were scrutinized (fairly) and he adjusted bv prices accordingly, fine. I then received the bv's of the cards he had for me and WHOA!!! flags went up. His bv's were more than the nrmt bv's in Becketts. So I decided to take a closer look at the cards he had for me. In the one scan of 9 cards, as is, I could see some corner dings fairly clearly so def not nrmt. Here are 2 examples as I didn't need to go any further after these 2:
RANDY LEESE-via Samstradingpost.com- had a nice little vintage trade going on here that went terribly wrong when pricing/grading. Admittedly, my vintage are not usually nrmt cards, so I will usually send a scan of the cards so the other trader can see what he was getting. I usually send no more than 3 or 4 cards in a scan so that the other trader can zoom-in and see the cards up-close so there are no discrepancies. I did that for about 90% of the cards (I didn't really have to for some really nice 1961's that were mintish) which was around 60 cards in all. When I do that, I usually exact the same from the other trader. From this guy, I get one scan of the most valuable 9 cards in the lot. I didn't zoom-in on the cards as he explained the were nrmt or better and I took his word for it (dumb me!). When it came time to finish the trade, the scans of the cards I had for him were scrutinized (fairly) and he adjusted bv prices accordingly, fine. I then received the bv's of the cards he had for me and WHOA!!! flags went up. His bv's were more than the nrmt bv's in Becketts. So I decided to take a closer look at the cards he had for me. In the one scan of 9 cards, as is, I could see some corner dings fairly clearly so def not nrmt. Here are 2 examples as I didn't need to go any further after these 2:
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He actually argued that this Winfield was Mint!!! The Seaver bv is $12 NrMt and he argued that this was NrMt. This card is creased, rounded, frayed corners not to mention he didn't even scan the whole card.
I dropped this guy from my emails as he was actually arguing his point. Stay AWAY or make sure you get scans of ALL cards, front and back!
2019- Again, another condition issue. I bought a Mets Renata Galasso set from Tony Godell, tglg, on "The Bench". Tony is a respected trader but when I received the RG set, it was well below the Mint Value of $20 for the set. The set is worthless to me as I don't collect less than NrMt Mets. I wanted my money back and return postage. tglg wanted nothing to do with giving full value back. We went through moderation and the moderator agreed that the only fair thing to do was to return the trade altogether. Unfortunately, I unknowingly broke the rules of "The Bench" by paying for the set via Friends and Family on Paypal to avoid Tony getting any charges. Since the moderators can not help, the transaction is left to Tony "manning-up" and doing what the moderators agreed upon originally and frankly, just being fair. He wants nothing to do with it at this date 5/18/19. Cards are garbage, I am out $20.
I dropped this guy from my emails as he was actually arguing his point. Stay AWAY or make sure you get scans of ALL cards, front and back!
2019- Again, another condition issue. I bought a Mets Renata Galasso set from Tony Godell, tglg, on "The Bench". Tony is a respected trader but when I received the RG set, it was well below the Mint Value of $20 for the set. The set is worthless to me as I don't collect less than NrMt Mets. I wanted my money back and return postage. tglg wanted nothing to do with giving full value back. We went through moderation and the moderator agreed that the only fair thing to do was to return the trade altogether. Unfortunately, I unknowingly broke the rules of "The Bench" by paying for the set via Friends and Family on Paypal to avoid Tony getting any charges. Since the moderators can not help, the transaction is left to Tony "manning-up" and doing what the moderators agreed upon originally and frankly, just being fair. He wants nothing to do with it at this date 5/18/19. Cards are garbage, I am out $20.
The Infamous "throw this in and I'll make the trade" list!
Oh how I hate this. I will usually make trades in someones favor when I can. Not always possible. But if a trade is in your favor and you say this to me, you make my list. If we have been trading a while and you ask if you can have something, no problem! You hold me hostage...your an Ass!
Cardsfan8- SCF
torcato- The Bench
dodgersalltheway- SCF
YankeeCollector- The Bench
bb3p- Bill Jarboe, The Bench-I offered $81 to his sending $70. He wanted more. His response, "it doesn't hurt to ask"..
jcollyer- SCF- be sure you get his cards first. Promised 3 times to send cards and never did.
Chris Rainey - Lebanon Ohio. Throw this in and....lied about bv's to get more in trade. I caved. No more!!
Curt Kammerer- SCF (fun)- offered $4 for a $12 card and asked for around $10 more to get thrown in...see ya!
BAD TRADERS:
1) Bad NON-Trader (12-10-2011)- acesofclubs on Sportscardforum- WOW! This guy was something else. I offered a trade in his benefit. He said he needed more. I said he was already up 50% of the trade value. He then proceeded to call me names and that as a "noob" I shouldn't turn down a trade (I only have/had 11 points on the SCF board). He proceeded to tell me that I hadn't traded long enough in my life to turn him down in a trade and that I, a *explicative deleted*, have no right to turn him down. Little did he know I have traded for many years, just not on the SCF board. BTW, he has over 2000 posts on the board and his avatar states he "must send first". Now I know why. STAY AWAY. You have been warned!
a)- waulk11- Blowout Cards- tries to rip you off. Beware!
b) Terje Revenew cub4life78 on The Bench- 1-31-2013- 1957 Spahn- stated it had no creases when in fact it had 2.
c) shortbus12- Paul. We made a cash deal of $100 for $900 worth of cards. He said he didn't get some of them. I had to pay a percentage back. Don't deal here.
2) sinocc (The Bench) Curtis Christlieb- This one I do not get. Asked me for a card, I said I no longer had it and then called me a liar...Here goes:
Originally Posted by sinocc-
for the tom seaver and piazza gus i would really like to get something in the same price range, maybe 2012 topps blacks? i do those sets and will take any you get in. plmk thnx!
Originally Posted by bonzomoretti - Sorry, No blacks. Had 1 but traded it already...sorry. I put the trade a bit in your favor for just that reason. LMK, Thanks
Originally Posted by sinocc i am going to pass. i have asked you for blacks in the past and i do the sets whereas others on the site use them to barter. nothing wrong with that. but when you lie to me, sorry, no go here! i saw your thread where you said you have a black coming in. i thought maybe you would offer it to me for some nice mets stuff you need. guess i was wrong. take care!
Originally Posted by bonzomoretti - The black coming in is ALREADY gone! Sorry you feel that way. I don't like being called a liar! I think you could have handled that totally differently. You shouldn't be able to tell someone who they should trade with. It's only cardboard!
Originally Posted by sinocc-
nice try! i asked you about any blacks last week! i saw your post letting
another trader know yesterday that you had that black coming in then you answer
me that you don't have any. you lied. that simple. i am not telling you who
you should trade with i simply do not want to trade with people who lie to me.
if you cannot be honest, why would i want to have anything to do with you. no
other reasons just simple integrity and honesty is all.
i too am sorry
you and Mike Kestner felt so strongly about your feeling bad that he had to make
it public. he and you have been reported to the Bench. this is a private
matter and i wish to keep it that way; between two adults.
obviously,
your long trading partnership with another trader is more important to you than
getting items for your mets collection from me, that no other trader on the site
has. sobeit. your choice not mine. i simply don't like being lied to. you
lied.
i have had one other trader be deceptive and lie in the past and i
have never traded with them again. if they and you want to apologize for lying
to me or deceiving me about things, i would consider trading again with you in
the future. i believe in 2nd chances! otherwise, have a nice life.
good luck to you and anyone you choose to trade with in the future. besides, it is
only cardboard!
Originally Posted by bonzomoretti -
Curtis, You obviously have me mixed up with someone else. I have never been
reported at "The Bench"...don't even know and have never traded with a Mike
Hestner (as far as I know)...The blacks you are referring to have never been
available to anyone but the one person they have been promised to in a trade.
Get your facts straight.
I have no reason to defend myself to you for any of my trades. They are MY cards, I do with them as I please. If I don't have a card, I can not offer it in a trade. Case closed. I am no longer sorry for the
way you feel and can only hope you get more pissed off and start more problems as I'd love to see you get kicked off of here. I trade in good faith with everyone here and if I promise someone cards, they have first shot. I can not believe how screwed up you got this as you obviously have no idea who you are
talking (pming) to!
Originally Posted by sinocc-
Mike
Deny you know Mike Kestner, metsman1986 all you want. I don't care.
I know exactly who you are. You are not being honest. You are being dishonest
to me when you told me you had no blacks. I asked you way before your trade
friend posted on your thread yesterday asking for blacks. I asked you late last
week in pms about blacks. By our unspoken and unwritten rule on the Bench, you
should have given me the courtesy of offering me the first shot at your blacks
since I asked you before anyone else did and we were working on that current
trade. You promised them in a trade after I asked you for them. My facts are
crystal clear and straight.
So, I could care less what you do with your cards. The issue, again, is not the cards. Remember, they are just cardboard. The issue is you continuing to misrepresent the facts and try to pretend you did
not do anything wrong with me. Think what you want.
I already reported Mike Kestner, metsman1986, to the Bench. He posted on my thread almost verbatim
what I sent to you in a PM, within a short time of me sending you that pm. So,
it is either the greatest coincidence in the world that 2 mets collectors have a
psychic connection and Mr. Kestner taunts me on a thread i updated minutes after
shooting you that pm and then quotes from the pm i sent you. Or, you are now
being untruthful again. I could care which. I reported Mr. Kestner because his
post was inane and designed to taunt me. That is all.
I, too, am no longer sorry for the way you feel and can only hope you get more pissed off and
continue your untruths and more problems as I'd love to see you get kicked off
of here. I trade in good faith with everyone here and if I ask someone for
cards, I have first shot and they usually don't twist the truth with me about
it. I can not believe how screwed up you got this as you obviously have no idea
who you are talking (pming) to!
Best collecting wishes!
People, this guy is delusional and has no idea what he is talking about. I promised nothing to him, do not know or are in cohorts with this Mike Kestner guy. This person really needs medication....stay tuned as we both submitted tickets to "The Bench".
It's just too bad for him as I had made a trade for a Joe Mauer black x/61 before this all happened as I thought he'd like it being a Twins collector. His loss.
Update 6-9-2012-
Got the ole canned response from "The Bench":
"I have read both of your TGB tickets and your PMs to each other on this matter.
If you do not like what someone has to say, add them to your blocked list and
do not trade with each other in the future. Avoid the other so as to not cause problems here."
I have blocked him from my account at The Bench. I received a pm from Mike Hestner saying that this guy is harrassing him and asked me what he was referring to. I made 1 trade with Mike about 1 year earlier and that was the last we had contacted each other until now. I have since received pm's from others that have had problems with sinocc...
Update 8-14-2012-
This bum has pissed off one too many people...finally...and has been suspended from "The Bench". Excuse me while I jump for Joy!!!
UPDATE- JANUARY 2013- This ASS has finally been kicked off "The Bench" permanently!!!! YEE HA!!!...also from Trading Bases...also from Sports Card Forum...also from Card Collectors World...Sportscardfun...not yet!
3) Shawn Lackey
486 Georgia Ridge Rd
Searcy, AR. 72143
The Trade made on "The Bench":
I send:
PPR-DY Delmon Young $8,
PPR-TG GWYNN jERSEY $8,
PPR-AR RAMIREZ $8,
PPR-DL LEE $8,
PPR-LB Berkman bat $12
PPR-DH Dan HAREN JERSEY $8 Total $52
I get:
1968 Topps Seaver Mint condition
The trader promised a Mint condition Seaver with 1 soft corner. I got a VG condition Seaver with 2 frayed corners and the other 2 rounded. Card off center 80/20.
The Scenerio:
Email sent to moderator 10-15-10: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Card described as Mint with one not so sharp corner. card received was 90/10 top/bottom, 4 rounded corners, 1 frayed. I would grade VG-Ex
Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti What did he say to you when you asked him why he didnt describe the condition better? Did he offer replacement or to reverse the trade?
Thanks,
Moderator (name withheld)
My email to him once receiving the card:
Shawn, Received the Seaver today and must admit I was extremely dissappointed. While you insisted this was a mint card, this card would grade around a 5 on a scale of 1-10 and would grade VG-excellent.
First off, the card is not even close to be well centered. The card is 90/10 top to bottom. Secondly, ALL 4 CORNERS are fuzzy with the top right being slightly frayed. The bottom 2 corners would be called sl-rounded. The bv for this card would be $10-15. Are you sure you sent the right card? I cannot score this trade a 5 on all accounts and I feel like I was ripped-off. Mike
Here was his email back:
"well i dont know how you grade cards that are 42 years old but my uncle has been dealing in cards since he was 18 years old and he is 42 now and he is the one that said that the card was in mnt condition, if you are expecting to get cards that has no corner wear and perfectly centered you may need to stick with ebay or cards shows, i gave you the description the best that i could and told you the corners had minor wear on them and that is the best that i could do, and if you want to talk about condition of cards we will talk about the cards you sent that i never bothered to pm you about, the tony gwynn and the derek lee both have creases by the swatches on them and the delman young has a big dent in the card so if you want to talk about conditions we can, i told you what the card looked like the best that i could so there is nothing else i could do".
(Me) the only thing he mentioned when I asked if all 4 corners were sharp on this card, he said 1 was not. He had already given the trade 5's so I know that if we were to exchange cards again, the 6 GU'ed I sent him will have "all-of-a-sudden" gotten creases. I don't want them back.
This was by far my worse experience in a trade. This card I received is worth less than $10 (I was generous in my email back to him stating $10-15) when what I traded him was over $50.
Thanks, Mike
Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Okay, It sounds as if SLackey wont be willing to send compensation here, but I can try and get him to do so.
Without a reversal of the trade I fear your only current recourse would be to nail him with 1's and avoid trading with hime in the future.
I will PM him about compensation, any chance you could provide me with a scan of the card?
Also as far as you know, The GU cards you sent him had no damage when they left your hands?
(Me)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti The cards I sent him were "right out of the pack" 2010 Topps Peak Performance GU'ed cards. MINT!
Here is a scan:
http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...aver680001.jpg
I left 1's as far as condition and timely shipping and was honest about giving him 5's on packaging and communication. I didn't feel right about giving 1's on all catagories. I may have disliked his communications but he did so in a timely manner. LOL! Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Okay, I am no expert on Vintage, The Top edge is definitly OC, but Im not sure I would quite say 90/10. All four corners do appear to be "soft" at the least.
(Mod)Tell you what, Im gonna share this scan with the rest of the mods and get some more feedback as to "actual" condition compared to condition as compared to "described" condition by S.Lackey
(Me)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Please note that the top right corner and bottom left corners are frayed! I think the scan looks better than the card actually. Thanks. Please remember that this was described to me as MINT! Mike
(Mod)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti I have and I explained it very clearly to the rest of the mods,probably take a day or two to get good feedback from the team, but it is obvious to me from the scan that all 4 corners show damage not just one and that the card is clearly not mint at the very least he should have described the condition a step or 1/2step below NrMT. The Centering vertically is obviously off but compared to the horizontal centering (which is actually very nice) I am not sure it would be 90/10 maybe more of 70/30, but like I said there are mods with more Vintage experience than me, which is why I would like to gather their thoughts before proceeding.
(Me)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti I apreciate the help! Mike
(Mod)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti At this point in time S. Lackey is not interested in offering any compensations for the condition of the card, based on him saying the GU you sent him are damaged.
At this point theres really only 1 or maybe 2 things I can do.
1) we can reverse the trade, I can pull the recieved dates off the existing trade and you guys can ship each others cards back to each other and once the cards have been returned we can cancel out the original trade.
2) I can ask him for scans of the GU you sent him first and see what they look like as far as the damage he is talking about on the GU cards and go from there.
The other mods agreed that the condition is certainly not what it was said to be, as a group we conclude the 4 corners are all damaged in some way and the veritcal centering is approx 80/20. However I can't force him to compensate you because of that even though it appears you were mislead as to the condition of the card.
Being that the trade is already set as completed and that you gave him 1's in the appropriate categories if you dont want to reverse the trades, we pretty much have to leave it as is
In the future, if a problem like this arises, Please fill out a help desk ticket before you mark the trade as completed so we can try and fix things before the Trade manager awards bench points.
I'm sorry if those options aren't the result you desired, but in this instance these appear to be our only options. 10-16-2010 by bonzomoretti
(Me)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Thanks for your help. At this point, I don't expect to get the same cards back that I shipped him. They will purposely be damaged. If they were damaged when he got them, then why would he post grades of "5"'s across each catagory? Just close the case. Thanks. Mike
Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Mike I'm sorry I can't come up with a better option for you. I agree with your logic as far as leaving 5's in all categories, I am awaiting a response from him, so Im gonna leave this open a little bit longer until after he responds as to scans of the GU cards.
(Me) Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti I'd be surprised if he scans them. Doesn't want to have to "put" creases in them!
(Me)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti - Did he ever scan the cards? Just wondering if they really had creases? LMK, Thanks again. Mike
(Mod)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti I sent another PM reminding him he said he was gonna scan them for me today, but havent heard back yet
(Mod)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Okay, He pmed me today, said he scanned them but the creases arent showing up in the scans. At this point we really only have 2 options:
a) reverse the trade
b) leave the trade as is and move on.
basically where we started, he did offer to ship the cards to me so I could see the creases in person which, I am willing to do if you want me too.
(Me) Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Just move on from this (moderator). The energy isn't worth it. If the trade is reversed, I won't get the same cards back that I sent...in the same condition that is!
Thanks for your effort. Mike
(Mod)Re: TGB: Trade # S.Lackey / bonzomoretti Sorry I couldnt do better for you, all the mods agreed that the condition was worse than stated, however without him sending the GU to me to see what damage he is talking about, I dont see how we can do anything about it (other than the lower grades you gave him on condition). based on this transaction of yours, I certainly wont be trying to make any deals with S.Lackey. I will close this out.
8/2016
LVsmojoe- Greg Serensits(SCForum) a real headshaker here. Admitted to paying $35 in cards. Wanted me to pay $60 plus $200 bv in cards. Really! Get your cards first from this guy.
Please Don't Make My Bad Traders List!!!!! I don't want to make yours!
